I will never stop being amazed at the fact that rural white voters blame Democrats fora ll of their problems, even when they are so obviously caused by the Republicans they voted for. But it's not that hard to explain. They consume a non-stop diet of Fox News and AM hate radio and worship in churches pastored by political preachers, that is part of it. But the bottom line is that Republicans speak to the issues rural voters care most about - the culture war, even when it impacts them not at all. Democrats need to learn how to speak to those issues in rural America in a positive manner, probably using the words of Jesus. That might break thru.
Plus, guns. There’s no understanding Trump’s rural appeal with accounting for the role of gun ownership.
In a nutshell, if things are going to hell in a hand basket, you’d be nuts to vote for the party that wants to unman you and take away your guns. The upshot is that you could put a free hospital in every county in West Virginia and it would still be MAGA.
Try watching Fox News for a few days. Then you will understand .Anything that goes wrong is always the Democrats’ fault. It didn’t help that the mainstream “liberal” media buried the truth and even lied about the strength of the Biden economy and obsessed about the price of eggs instead. Most swing voters had no clue that the US has the strongest economic growth, the best job market in over fifty years, wages outpacing inflation with the greatest gains going to the lowest incomes — and reducing income inequality!
“Yes, the Media Lied About the Pre-Election Economy”
That's exactly why he just might be able to win. He is the one candidate (no shade on Collin Allred) who can really take the Jesus card right into the face of either Cornyn, or more likely, the odious Paxton.
Wasn't that Kamala's message, to a large extent? To me, if I compared the two presidential campaigns, Trump's was all rage and frustration and Kamala's was joy and improvement. That was one of the main reasons I was kind of shocked when Harris lost. Are there really that many Americans who would rather vote for an angry, lying, old white guy, than a well-spoken, happy black woman? Seriously?
Pretty much everything in America boils down to race so, to answer your question, yes many Americans will choose the stupid angry white man over the intelligent educated black woman ( or man) every time precisely because of skin color. This has been America's sickness for centuries and it won't be cured anytime soon.
Hell of it is, everyone here so far is right. Then they go right back to losing the fight. Blaming Trump voters; calling them names is exactly what Trump wants you to do. Say hateful things about people to people and they will go through hell to prove you wrong, or just try to hurt you as much as you hurt them (their feelings).
There is no surprise to the way Trump voters respond. Humans have behaved this way since before they climbed down from the trees. Those of us who believe in Darwin should understand this. Rallying behind a "strong" leader has survival benefits.And none of us, even us geniuses, have brains that can handle all the information we need to survive fast enough to come up with better answers in time to save us from the dangers we perceive. It's not that they, we, are racists, but "the other" is always a danger, and if they are not a "real" danger, a good con man can easily convince us that "they" are, and are the source of all our troubles.
Civilization gives us the chance to overcome a lot of this "normal human stupidity," but we actually need to work at it. It's not a good idea to run around telling the people we need to convince that they are stupid,
We, Democrats and Progressives, watched this (the rise of the insane Right, and did nothing about it. Well, maybe the "progressives" tried, but they kept tripping over their own tongues. Speaking the language of hate, blaming the victims, Calling for policies as likely to destroy democracy as what the Right is calling for.
Whatever you think of the Founders..those evil racist old white men,,, they managed to put together, first a revolution against the King, and second a Constitution that respected a balance of power and respected human rights at least on paper to remind us there was such a thing. And the first thing that modern progressives call for when they lose an election...because they never learned to talk to the people who voted against them... is to change the Constitution in ways that give them...the progressives... the same totalitarian power that they complain the Right is seizing.
To be clear, there is a conspiracy by people on the Right to seize power and keep it forever. We have been watching them do that since the beginning really, but especially since about 1983 , and failed to learn from them. As Ben Franklin said, "a republic, if you can keep it."
i forgot to mention that hurting people is what the Right wants to do. In the first place it gives them pleasure to hurt people, especially if the people know they can't do anything about it. That's what all the old folk tales about the Devil and Hell have been trying to tell us. It's especially fun for them if they can persuade you to take yourself to hell by your own choices. note i am not claiming here that there is a real devil and a real hell..except the one we make for ourselves.
And to offer my own answer: we need to work together... learn HOW to work together...to find solutions to real problems that will work, including the problem of convincing the people to let us try real solutions and not just shout slogans at each other.
Those of you who think the Dems fail at this are right. Try to get your Dem congressman to give you a real answer to any real question. I think our only hope at this point is to unite under the Democrats organizational infrastructure, but we need to then try very hard to think clearly and work together. I am not optimistic but I have seen some hope.
I think a large source of the placement of blame upon Democrats by rural voters is due to the media they consume, e.g. Fox, Sinclair — propaganda arms of the MAGA Republican party. This only stands to get worse with the acquisition of various media by the Ellisons.
While I agree that Trump benefits from outrage from the rubes who can't see cause and effect, I'm not sure his policies are meant for that purpose. Is he really that smart and strategic?
I think when we look at why Trump does something, we need to first and foremost look at how it may benefit him. Take, for example, his help to Argentina with the monetary swap and now the importation of beef. There has to be something in it for him. We may not find out what it is, but you can probably bet the farm that there's something on the back-end that benefits him.
He is only strategic when his own interests are concerned. He will screw the country up one side and down the other without a second thought if it benefits him personally.
How much of the vote shift after a hospital closure is due to the same individual voters changing their votes vs. the voter pool overall shifting because the community lost a large pool of jobs for educated professionals who then leave and go elsewhere? Hard to measure something like that but still relevant in defining the problem and possible organizing/political solutions.
Democrats have never learned how to message effectively, or how to counter the highly successful and monolithic messaging machine that the republicans have built. republicans have controlled the political narrative in the U.S. since the days of Reagan, and that messaging dominance shows no signs of abating. If the Dems would ever figure out how to build a messaging infrastructure--TV, radio, internet, etc.--to get a cogent, easily understandable messaging approach into the public sphere, we would never lose another election. But so far, I see zero evidence of that happening. I wrote to Ken Martin at the DNC, asking about what the Dems were doing to put a platform and strategy together for the midterms and the 2028 elections. I never heard back. I'm not surprised, because the Dems absolutely suck at communicating. It makes me so frustrated, because we could destroy MAGA and the GOP if we could only learn how to message effectively--but that seems beyond the capabilities of Democrats. Even worse, the Dems don't seem interested. It's heartbreaking.
Why blame Democratic messaging when the right wing media which is controls the majority of the information space doesn't report Democratic messaging and the so called main stream media doesn't report the truth when the Republicans politicize the truth?
Because the Dems need to find ways to work around the legacy/mainstream media. We need to build our own media infrastructure just like the republicans have. They've got Fox, OAN, Newsmax, and over 1,000 right-wing radio stations. What do we have? If Dems would figure out that the medium is the message, we'd do a lot better.
I remember the incessant scolding of Democrats to talk about what they would do better, not just criticize Trump. It was hollow then, and it's hollow no.
15 years ago an early supporter of our folden leader told me, "The only purpose of government is to protect and increase concentrations of wealth and power." The very rich don't require rural hospitals.
I think the reason the old conman's policies are so harmful to just about everyone except himself and his class friends is that he doesn't give a damn any more. He's there because the billionaires wanted him there to hand out subsidies, tax cuts, deregulation -- whatever would stuff their coffers. Some of them also like that he's as morally depraved as they are and will make sure they are never held to account for it. They made sure he returned to the White House, and they are fine with keeping him there for now. The old conman told his voters outright, "I don't care about you. I just want your vote." Now, he doesn't need their votes. So why would he do anything for people he doesn't care about at all, even despises?
For the old conman and his class, the federal treasury is there to be looted. This means, first, changing allocations from the social safety net toward their pockets. The budget includes, note well, all the money the federal government can borrow. We have seen time and again that Republicons are perfectly happy with massive borrowing, as long as the borrowed money goes to the right pockets. The more the better. The only limit is the reaction of financial markets when the deficit and debt begin to look too large relative to the size of the economy and expected growth. Republicons will always push against that limit, as the old conman and his cronies are doing now.
I believe that rural Americans will continue to support Trump and Republicans. A major part of the problem is the news sources they have available. A large number of rural areas do not have newspapers available, and many of them do not read them anyway. Their primary news source is right-wing radio and television. In other words, they are being fed a steady stream of disinformation, which they have little to compare it with.
I will never stop being amazed at the fact that rural white voters blame Democrats fora ll of their problems, even when they are so obviously caused by the Republicans they voted for. But it's not that hard to explain. They consume a non-stop diet of Fox News and AM hate radio and worship in churches pastored by political preachers, that is part of it. But the bottom line is that Republicans speak to the issues rural voters care most about - the culture war, even when it impacts them not at all. Democrats need to learn how to speak to those issues in rural America in a positive manner, probably using the words of Jesus. That might break thru.
Peter,
Fox News, AM hate radio and churches pastored by political teachers specifically of evangelical Christianity persuasion all share one approach:
Appeal and speak ONLY to your audience’s feelings. Eradicate by all means possible their ability to reason. Tell them what to think.
Plus, guns. There’s no understanding Trump’s rural appeal with accounting for the role of gun ownership.
In a nutshell, if things are going to hell in a hand basket, you’d be nuts to vote for the party that wants to unman you and take away your guns. The upshot is that you could put a free hospital in every county in West Virginia and it would still be MAGA.
throughout the history human nature, in my opinion been influenced by just two personality types:
Leaders and Followers.
In this day and age it seems more and more people WANT to be told what to do.
Why it is?
Lazy? Poor critical thinking skills? Lacking sufficient parental up bringing as a youth? Paranoid?
YUP
All of the above.
Try watching Fox News for a few days. Then you will understand .Anything that goes wrong is always the Democrats’ fault. It didn’t help that the mainstream “liberal” media buried the truth and even lied about the strength of the Biden economy and obsessed about the price of eggs instead. Most swing voters had no clue that the US has the strongest economic growth, the best job market in over fifty years, wages outpacing inflation with the greatest gains going to the lowest incomes — and reducing income inequality!
“Yes, the Media Lied About the Pre-Election Economy”
Dean Baker
https://cepr.net/publications/media-lied-about-pre-election-economy/
Your ending brought to mind James Talarico, a seminary student running for Texas Senator.
That's exactly why he just might be able to win. He is the one candidate (no shade on Collin Allred) who can really take the Jesus card right into the face of either Cornyn, or more likely, the odious Paxton.
Yes!
The trick will be to find some way to get them to hear your message when they get their news from Fox and worse.
Wasn't that Kamala's message, to a large extent? To me, if I compared the two presidential campaigns, Trump's was all rage and frustration and Kamala's was joy and improvement. That was one of the main reasons I was kind of shocked when Harris lost. Are there really that many Americans who would rather vote for an angry, lying, old white guy, than a well-spoken, happy black woman? Seriously?
Pretty much everything in America boils down to race so, to answer your question, yes many Americans will choose the stupid angry white man over the intelligent educated black woman ( or man) every time precisely because of skin color. This has been America's sickness for centuries and it won't be cured anytime soon.
Yes.
Also this from Walter Lippmann:
“Men will do almost anything but govern themselves. They don’t want the responsibility.”
Yep. Two hours to a hospital? It’s the democrats fault. ACA subsidies going up ? It’s the democrats fault. Soybeans rotting ? Democrats.
Trade destroyed? Democrats.
Education destroyed? Democrats.
Women’s Bodily autonomy ripped away?
Well it’s those pesky Democrats.
No rural broadband?
Those damn Democrats did it.
By gum, let’s vote republican, they’ll fix it.
The stupidity, it burns.
And rural Americans are simply *outraged* that Democrats “look down their nose at them!”
Hell of it is, everyone here so far is right. Then they go right back to losing the fight. Blaming Trump voters; calling them names is exactly what Trump wants you to do. Say hateful things about people to people and they will go through hell to prove you wrong, or just try to hurt you as much as you hurt them (their feelings).
There is no surprise to the way Trump voters respond. Humans have behaved this way since before they climbed down from the trees. Those of us who believe in Darwin should understand this. Rallying behind a "strong" leader has survival benefits.And none of us, even us geniuses, have brains that can handle all the information we need to survive fast enough to come up with better answers in time to save us from the dangers we perceive. It's not that they, we, are racists, but "the other" is always a danger, and if they are not a "real" danger, a good con man can easily convince us that "they" are, and are the source of all our troubles.
Civilization gives us the chance to overcome a lot of this "normal human stupidity," but we actually need to work at it. It's not a good idea to run around telling the people we need to convince that they are stupid,
We, Democrats and Progressives, watched this (the rise of the insane Right, and did nothing about it. Well, maybe the "progressives" tried, but they kept tripping over their own tongues. Speaking the language of hate, blaming the victims, Calling for policies as likely to destroy democracy as what the Right is calling for.
Whatever you think of the Founders..those evil racist old white men,,, they managed to put together, first a revolution against the King, and second a Constitution that respected a balance of power and respected human rights at least on paper to remind us there was such a thing. And the first thing that modern progressives call for when they lose an election...because they never learned to talk to the people who voted against them... is to change the Constitution in ways that give them...the progressives... the same totalitarian power that they complain the Right is seizing.
To be clear, there is a conspiracy by people on the Right to seize power and keep it forever. We have been watching them do that since the beginning really, but especially since about 1983 , and failed to learn from them. As Ben Franklin said, "a republic, if you can keep it."
i forgot to mention that hurting people is what the Right wants to do. In the first place it gives them pleasure to hurt people, especially if the people know they can't do anything about it. That's what all the old folk tales about the Devil and Hell have been trying to tell us. It's especially fun for them if they can persuade you to take yourself to hell by your own choices. note i am not claiming here that there is a real devil and a real hell..except the one we make for ourselves.
And to offer my own answer: we need to work together... learn HOW to work together...to find solutions to real problems that will work, including the problem of convincing the people to let us try real solutions and not just shout slogans at each other.
Those of you who think the Dems fail at this are right. Try to get your Dem congressman to give you a real answer to any real question. I think our only hope at this point is to unite under the Democrats organizational infrastructure, but we need to then try very hard to think clearly and work together. I am not optimistic but I have seen some hope.
I think a large source of the placement of blame upon Democrats by rural voters is due to the media they consume, e.g. Fox, Sinclair — propaganda arms of the MAGA Republican party. This only stands to get worse with the acquisition of various media by the Ellisons.
While I agree that Trump benefits from outrage from the rubes who can't see cause and effect, I'm not sure his policies are meant for that purpose. Is he really that smart and strategic?
I think when we look at why Trump does something, we need to first and foremost look at how it may benefit him. Take, for example, his help to Argentina with the monetary swap and now the importation of beef. There has to be something in it for him. We may not find out what it is, but you can probably bet the farm that there's something on the back-end that benefits him.
He is only strategic when his own interests are concerned. He will screw the country up one side and down the other without a second thought if it benefits him personally.
How much of the vote shift after a hospital closure is due to the same individual voters changing their votes vs. the voter pool overall shifting because the community lost a large pool of jobs for educated professionals who then leave and go elsewhere? Hard to measure something like that but still relevant in defining the problem and possible organizing/political solutions.
Democrats have never learned how to message effectively, or how to counter the highly successful and monolithic messaging machine that the republicans have built. republicans have controlled the political narrative in the U.S. since the days of Reagan, and that messaging dominance shows no signs of abating. If the Dems would ever figure out how to build a messaging infrastructure--TV, radio, internet, etc.--to get a cogent, easily understandable messaging approach into the public sphere, we would never lose another election. But so far, I see zero evidence of that happening. I wrote to Ken Martin at the DNC, asking about what the Dems were doing to put a platform and strategy together for the midterms and the 2028 elections. I never heard back. I'm not surprised, because the Dems absolutely suck at communicating. It makes me so frustrated, because we could destroy MAGA and the GOP if we could only learn how to message effectively--but that seems beyond the capabilities of Democrats. Even worse, the Dems don't seem interested. It's heartbreaking.
Why blame Democratic messaging when the right wing media which is controls the majority of the information space doesn't report Democratic messaging and the so called main stream media doesn't report the truth when the Republicans politicize the truth?
Because the Dems need to find ways to work around the legacy/mainstream media. We need to build our own media infrastructure just like the republicans have. They've got Fox, OAN, Newsmax, and over 1,000 right-wing radio stations. What do we have? If Dems would figure out that the medium is the message, we'd do a lot better.
Amen, sister!
Thank you.
I remember the incessant scolding of Democrats to talk about what they would do better, not just criticize Trump. It was hollow then, and it's hollow no.
15 years ago an early supporter of our folden leader told me, "The only purpose of government is to protect and increase concentrations of wealth and power." The very rich don't require rural hospitals.
I think the reason the old conman's policies are so harmful to just about everyone except himself and his class friends is that he doesn't give a damn any more. He's there because the billionaires wanted him there to hand out subsidies, tax cuts, deregulation -- whatever would stuff their coffers. Some of them also like that he's as morally depraved as they are and will make sure they are never held to account for it. They made sure he returned to the White House, and they are fine with keeping him there for now. The old conman told his voters outright, "I don't care about you. I just want your vote." Now, he doesn't need their votes. So why would he do anything for people he doesn't care about at all, even despises?
For the old conman and his class, the federal treasury is there to be looted. This means, first, changing allocations from the social safety net toward their pockets. The budget includes, note well, all the money the federal government can borrow. We have seen time and again that Republicons are perfectly happy with massive borrowing, as long as the borrowed money goes to the right pockets. The more the better. The only limit is the reaction of financial markets when the deficit and debt begin to look too large relative to the size of the economy and expected growth. Republicons will always push against that limit, as the old conman and his cronies are doing now.
I believe that rural Americans will continue to support Trump and Republicans. A major part of the problem is the news sources they have available. A large number of rural areas do not have newspapers available, and many of them do not read them anyway. Their primary news source is right-wing radio and television. In other words, they are being fed a steady stream of disinformation, which they have little to compare it with.