I have three thoughts on the right-wing's reaction to Kirk's assassination.
1. I consider myself to be center-left. I never realized that I am a member of a terrorist organization.
2. I do not recognize anything Kirk did that deserved flags at half-staff and a Presidential Medal of Freedom. Of course, I thought the same thing about Rush Limbaugh.
3. The Republicans are really good at propaganda, lying and viciousness. They have proven they are no longer good at governing.
The last Republican I thought was really good at governing was Eisenhower whom I clearly remember. I cannot include GHW Bush because as VP he was deeply involved in the illegal, unconstitutional Iran Contra conspiracy and lied about it for years by claiming he had been kept “out of the loop”. Bush also obstructed justice by withholding evidence (his diary) from the Independent Counsel investigation. After he had been forced to turn his diary over Bush pardoned all of his co-conspirators — with the full support of his AG William Barr. That pardon kept Bush’s diary from being made public at Caspar Weinberger’s trial. The Independent Counsel, Republican Lawrence Walsh, was furious and accused Bush of “completing the coverup”.
The media chose to downplay these facts but you can still read the truth in the Independent Counsel, Lawrence Walsh’s book “Firewall: The Iran-Contra Conspiracy and Cover-Up”.
Democrats should be all over the media and social media attacking the republicans about all their false accusations , but we usually only get a few online posts -
When you Google "democratic state reps killed", the top results aren't even about the Minnesota representatives that were killed or wounded in June. Just three months ago! How are their deaths so much less important than a racist, misogynist who was never actually elected?
You laid it out! I have a friend in Montana, a Republican and Trump supporter, who would never, ever understand how insidiously dangerous her party has become and what she and they are doing to me and other citizens of the United States. She’d take no responsibility.
a lot of people who have been taught to believe stupid and evil things are not fundamentally bad. Better to keep your friends and maybe make new ones so you can quietly and gradually change their minds.
As sad as it is to say this: if people haven't learned by now that Trump and his flying monkeys are evil incarnate, then those people are a lost cause. (They've only had ten years to watch Trump's jackassery. If they haven't figured this stuff out by now, they aren't going to do it. Ever.) It's almost certainly better to write them off. Don't bother trying to explain why you're doing it, because they either won't believe you or won't care what you say. They're in a cult, and rationality doesn't matter to cultists. That's a hard truth, but it's the reality. I've personally lost friends and family members because while we can peacefully disagree on matters of policy, I will not compromise on matters of morality. The republican party has become nothing but a fascist, white supremacist movement, and I refuse to buy into their evil. If your friends want to be Trump supporters even as he destroys the United States, then you really need to find new and better friends.
Matters of morality? You wouldn't know morality if it slithered up your leg and bit you on the ass. Looking for a "fascist?" Find the nearest mirror. All you do is hate. It is all you have. What are you without your hatred?
You don't know me. If you did, you'd know that trafficking in hate is not how I roll. I deal with reality. Trump is pure evil. He is a convicted felon and sex offender. He is almost certainly a pedophile. Those who support him are complicit in his ongoing criminality against the American people. That's not hate, sir: that's the truth. And to answer your question, I am a military veteran, a published author, and a happy, fulfilled, productive, contributing member of American society who will do all I can to save my beloved country from the fascists who would turn it into an authoritarian oligarchy.
you are probably mostly right, but it's not the way to win friends and influence people.
rationality rarely rarely matters to most people. you don't need to argue with people you disagree with. you just create a threat that they feel just as if it were a physical threat and they get defensive. as much as i feel that diplomat speak is smarmy...probably because the diplomatic people i know are mostly dishonest,,, it doesn't hurt you to not hurt them.
if you need to hate someone, hate their "leaders."
in spite of my recommendation that yo keep your friends and try to treat even Trumpteers kindly, I would not recommend you put much time into trying to save Charles Pluckhahn from himself. America made fairly good...only fairly...progress against evil and showed the world how to go about it for a time. But that last best hope on earth seems to slipping away. Thing now is to figure out how to survive it, and that may require the same "love your neighbor" advice, hard as it is.
in my heart i would rather fight, but all i can see from here is that would only make it worse at least for now. there may be people braver and smarter than i am who will show us how to fight and win.
Mr. Pluckhahn, I seem to have gotten under your skin and inside your head. I hope you're going to be all right. You seem rather perturbed and upset because of me. Perhaps I've touched a nerve here. Rational people don't go on and on about "hatred" as you do, especially when they don't even know the person in question. I hope you get the help you so obviously need.
Only one person benefits from this killing, it’s Donald Trump.
Ignoring Kirk is the best thing we can do. Trump&co expected Left Protest on Jan 6. That we didn’t show up made it clear who was to blame.
Let’s talk about those tariffs. I’m not a lawyer, but it seems to me there are some 1st amendment problems with Trump’s lawsuits against news outlets. We can’t expect MSM to be brave, but defending the 1st amendment seems a good start.
Excellent post, Paul. I draw people's attention to Jeff Sharlet's comments on Democracy Now!, reprinted today by Borowitz:
“There’s no other way to cut it, for a man who created something called Professor Watchlist, School Board Watchlist, to name and frighten people from teaching, who advocated restrictions on what school teachers could teach, who called for—and there’s a clip you can see online—who called for the televised public executions, and he had a pretty broad category in mind. But what was really chilling was he wanted this to be required viewing for children. And you can look at this clip, and you can see his colleagues. They’re sort of trolling, but Kirk, again and again, pulls it back to seriousness, and he says, ‘No, no, no, this isn’t a joke. This has to be a holy experience, a teaching experience for children, watching enemies be killed.’ That is not a champion of free speech.”
Ron, the point is that the more people make clear they know what a fraud this deification of Charlie Kirk is, the less likely a government crackdown on dissent will be. We have to speak up in whatever forums are available to us.
As a foreign writer , I no longer have any chance of returning to the States (thankfully). Now, post crazy Charlie's vile public funeral, I expect many assassinations of "enemies " of the Republican fascist State.
To be fair Biden, like Clinton, did a great job with the economy. He had the first reduction in income inequality in decades. Last October The Economist declared the US economy #1 in the world and said it was leaving other countries in its dust. Too bad our mainstream media refused to tell that story.
I was not a follower of Kirk's because I don't watch podcasts. An exception was the one guy's interviews (ah, Rogan) of Trump and Vance last October, but other than that, nada. Same for YouTube political videos. The first thing I noticed was in the comments on the New York Times and Washington Post's Facebook pages. A torrent of celebration for the murder, and hatred of Kirk.
I had very little idea of Kirk's reach. He went to college campuses, and I haven't been in college for 46 years. Even now, it amazes me. In any case, I read the liberal reactions and am shocked but not surprised. It's a group of people who shows every sign of thinking that they are better and smarter than everyone else, and thus everyone else should pay rapt attention to your lectures.
Um, no. We shall see how all of this reverberates over time. I think it's going to damage the Democratic Party. How much is anyone's guess, but: Can you afford it? Dare I suggest that you get rid of your arrogance, because that's a lost cause. Instead, ask yourselves what happens if the Dems fail to regain the House in '26, and then Vance beats Newsom in '28. Think a 6-3 Supreme Court is bad? Try 8-1.
But hey, ignore me. In fact, mock me. In no way should you ask yourselves why the Democratic Party is less popular than it's been since those surveys started. Dang, why look inward when everyone knows how much better and smarter you are?
What do you call the part of the alternative universe you live in? MAGAlaxy? I’ve seen no celebration of his murder. I’ve seen plenty of liberal commentators decrying political violence, many whitewashing Kirk’s hateful utterances and some reminding their readers that while his murder is abhorrent he hypocritically toured the country pretending to listen to other points of view while deflecting and derailing the conversation so he could preach his own views. His last exchange before death cut him off shows exactly that. In the MAGAverse quoting someone’s exact words to show they’re not the martyred saint MAGA propaganda wants to portray them as is “hate speech”. Truth is lies. Everything bad is leftist or liberal. Facts (remember them?) prove otherwise.
You are drunk on your hatred, your arrogance, and your self-righteousness. You've seen no celebration of Kirk's murder? Then you are either blind or a liar, like those Germans who said they didn't know what was happening. Speaking of fascists, look in the mirror.
To me this is the most important point of your post:
“And the news coverage has been absolutely overwhelming; from the sheer quantity of it you’d think Charlie Kirk had dominated political life in America like no figure in a century, even though most Americans had probably never heard his name before last week. ”
Most people I know had no idea who Charlie Kirk was and I live in the South. I suspect a lot of mainstream reporters and pundits didn’t know who Kirk really was either. That would explain Ezra Klein’s bizarre statement that Kirk did politics “the right way” and others who saw Kirk as a champion of free speech when he was a leader of movement to censor teachers, academics, etc.
Charlie Kirk preached ignorance, intolerance and hate; his murder was a despicable crime, but he should not be put on a pedestal, and he should not lie in state in the rotunda of the nation’s Capital.
Before long we will know all your names! I’m posting all your comments,including this propaganda post on Reddit! You guys wanted to be famous right? You should be happy,everyone’s taking notice,and more people who celebrate death or instigate political violence will also get their pink slips!
Do you get bonus points in MAGA for posting the same unhinged nonsense multiple times like a bot? What’s the prize for most points? A diploma in propaganda from Trump University? Another MAGA hat? I’m guessing third prize would be being forced to chow down on cheeseburgers with TACO while “YMCA” plays on endless repeat.
Before long we will know all your names! I’m posting all your comments,including this propaganda post on Reddit! You guys wanted to be famous right? You should be happy,everyone’s taking notice,and more people who celebrate death or instigate political violence will also get their pink slips!
Before long we will know all your names! I’m posting all your comments,including this propaganda post on Reddit! You guys wanted to be famous right? You should be happy,everyone’s taking notice,and more people who celebrate death or instigate political violence will also get their pink slips!
Before long we will know all your names! I’m posting all your comments,including this propaganda post on Reddit! You guys wanted to be famous right? You should be happy,everyone’s taking notice,and more people who celebrate death or instigate political violence will also get their pink slips!
I have three thoughts on the right-wing's reaction to Kirk's assassination.
1. I consider myself to be center-left. I never realized that I am a member of a terrorist organization.
2. I do not recognize anything Kirk did that deserved flags at half-staff and a Presidential Medal of Freedom. Of course, I thought the same thing about Rush Limbaugh.
3. The Republicans are really good at propaganda, lying and viciousness. They have proven they are no longer good at governing.
The last Republican I thought was really good at governing was Eisenhower whom I clearly remember. I cannot include GHW Bush because as VP he was deeply involved in the illegal, unconstitutional Iran Contra conspiracy and lied about it for years by claiming he had been kept “out of the loop”. Bush also obstructed justice by withholding evidence (his diary) from the Independent Counsel investigation. After he had been forced to turn his diary over Bush pardoned all of his co-conspirators — with the full support of his AG William Barr. That pardon kept Bush’s diary from being made public at Caspar Weinberger’s trial. The Independent Counsel, Republican Lawrence Walsh, was furious and accused Bush of “completing the coverup”.
The media chose to downplay these facts but you can still read the truth in the Independent Counsel, Lawrence Walsh’s book “Firewall: The Iran-Contra Conspiracy and Cover-Up”.
https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB462/
The last Democrat who was any good at anything was Bill Clinton. It's been all downhill from there, and rapidly.
And the Dems, once again, are asleep, unprepared and clueless how to respond. SMH.
One would of thought the democrats would have learned SOMETHING by now-nope not a single thing -the whole party is so weak and spineless-
With leaders like Schumer and Jeffries, one can see why -
Why? Their leaders aren’t online so they fundamentally don’t know or care about online buzz because they see it as a distraction from issues.
Democrats should be all over the media and social media attacking the republicans about all their false accusations , but we usually only get a few online posts -
Fight for gods sake
Boring.
What does SMH mean?
"Shaking My Head"
When you Google "democratic state reps killed", the top results aren't even about the Minnesota representatives that were killed or wounded in June. Just three months ago! How are their deaths so much less important than a racist, misogynist who was never actually elected?
You laid it out! I have a friend in Montana, a Republican and Trump supporter, who would never, ever understand how insidiously dangerous her party has become and what she and they are doing to me and other citizens of the United States. She’d take no responsibility.
Serious question: why is she still your friend?
Could it be that she's not so insecure and thin-skinned that she isn't threatened by everyone who has a different viewpoint than hers?
John
a lot of people who have been taught to believe stupid and evil things are not fundamentally bad. Better to keep your friends and maybe make new ones so you can quietly and gradually change their minds.
As sad as it is to say this: if people haven't learned by now that Trump and his flying monkeys are evil incarnate, then those people are a lost cause. (They've only had ten years to watch Trump's jackassery. If they haven't figured this stuff out by now, they aren't going to do it. Ever.) It's almost certainly better to write them off. Don't bother trying to explain why you're doing it, because they either won't believe you or won't care what you say. They're in a cult, and rationality doesn't matter to cultists. That's a hard truth, but it's the reality. I've personally lost friends and family members because while we can peacefully disagree on matters of policy, I will not compromise on matters of morality. The republican party has become nothing but a fascist, white supremacist movement, and I refuse to buy into their evil. If your friends want to be Trump supporters even as he destroys the United States, then you really need to find new and better friends.
Matters of morality? You wouldn't know morality if it slithered up your leg and bit you on the ass. Looking for a "fascist?" Find the nearest mirror. All you do is hate. It is all you have. What are you without your hatred?
You don't know me. If you did, you'd know that trafficking in hate is not how I roll. I deal with reality. Trump is pure evil. He is a convicted felon and sex offender. He is almost certainly a pedophile. Those who support him are complicit in his ongoing criminality against the American people. That's not hate, sir: that's the truth. And to answer your question, I am a military veteran, a published author, and a happy, fulfilled, productive, contributing member of American society who will do all I can to save my beloved country from the fascists who would turn it into an authoritarian oligarchy.
Hate hate hate hate. Them them them them. Your beloved country. Yeah, right.
Vanessa
you are probably mostly right, but it's not the way to win friends and influence people.
rationality rarely rarely matters to most people. you don't need to argue with people you disagree with. you just create a threat that they feel just as if it were a physical threat and they get defensive. as much as i feel that diplomat speak is smarmy...probably because the diplomatic people i know are mostly dishonest,,, it doesn't hurt you to not hurt them.
if you need to hate someone, hate their "leaders."
Vanessa
in spite of my recommendation that yo keep your friends and try to treat even Trumpteers kindly, I would not recommend you put much time into trying to save Charles Pluckhahn from himself. America made fairly good...only fairly...progress against evil and showed the world how to go about it for a time. But that last best hope on earth seems to slipping away. Thing now is to figure out how to survive it, and that may require the same "love your neighbor" advice, hard as it is.
in my heart i would rather fight, but all i can see from here is that would only make it worse at least for now. there may be people braver and smarter than i am who will show us how to fight and win.
I don't need to be "saved" by the likes of Vanessa or you, but thanks for the hatred. hate hate hate hate hate them them them them them.
Vanessa Sheridan needs to hate. What or who she hates is secondary to the fact that, without her hatred, she has nothing.
Mr. Pluckhahn, I seem to have gotten under your skin and inside your head. I hope you're going to be all right. You seem rather perturbed and upset because of me. Perhaps I've touched a nerve here. Rational people don't go on and on about "hatred" as you do, especially when they don't even know the person in question. I hope you get the help you so obviously need.
Only one person benefits from this killing, it’s Donald Trump.
Ignoring Kirk is the best thing we can do. Trump&co expected Left Protest on Jan 6. That we didn’t show up made it clear who was to blame.
Let’s talk about those tariffs. I’m not a lawyer, but it seems to me there are some 1st amendment problems with Trump’s lawsuits against news outlets. We can’t expect MSM to be brave, but defending the 1st amendment seems a good start.
RELEASE the EPSTEIN FILES!
Excellent post, Paul. I draw people's attention to Jeff Sharlet's comments on Democracy Now!, reprinted today by Borowitz:
“There’s no other way to cut it, for a man who created something called Professor Watchlist, School Board Watchlist, to name and frighten people from teaching, who advocated restrictions on what school teachers could teach, who called for—and there’s a clip you can see online—who called for the televised public executions, and he had a pretty broad category in mind. But what was really chilling was he wanted this to be required viewing for children. And you can look at this clip, and you can see his colleagues. They’re sort of trolling, but Kirk, again and again, pulls it back to seriousness, and he says, ‘No, no, no, this isn’t a joke. This has to be a holy experience, a teaching experience for children, watching enemies be killed.’ That is not a champion of free speech.”
The clip is here:
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=24551668741154105&rdid=QQqSRJK00VS6n8Q4
Be careful what you post. The FBI might come after you. /s?
Ron, the point is that the more people make clear they know what a fraud this deification of Charlie Kirk is, the less likely a government crackdown on dissent will be. We have to speak up in whatever forums are available to us.
The "/s" at the end means sarcasm.
As a foreign writer , I no longer have any chance of returning to the States (thankfully). Now, post crazy Charlie's vile public funeral, I expect many assassinations of "enemies " of the Republican fascist State.
Y'all need to quickly decide how to react!
To be fair Biden, like Clinton, did a great job with the economy. He had the first reduction in income inequality in decades. Last October The Economist declared the US economy #1 in the world and said it was leaving other countries in its dust. Too bad our mainstream media refused to tell that story.
I was not a follower of Kirk's because I don't watch podcasts. An exception was the one guy's interviews (ah, Rogan) of Trump and Vance last October, but other than that, nada. Same for YouTube political videos. The first thing I noticed was in the comments on the New York Times and Washington Post's Facebook pages. A torrent of celebration for the murder, and hatred of Kirk.
I had very little idea of Kirk's reach. He went to college campuses, and I haven't been in college for 46 years. Even now, it amazes me. In any case, I read the liberal reactions and am shocked but not surprised. It's a group of people who shows every sign of thinking that they are better and smarter than everyone else, and thus everyone else should pay rapt attention to your lectures.
Um, no. We shall see how all of this reverberates over time. I think it's going to damage the Democratic Party. How much is anyone's guess, but: Can you afford it? Dare I suggest that you get rid of your arrogance, because that's a lost cause. Instead, ask yourselves what happens if the Dems fail to regain the House in '26, and then Vance beats Newsom in '28. Think a 6-3 Supreme Court is bad? Try 8-1.
But hey, ignore me. In fact, mock me. In no way should you ask yourselves why the Democratic Party is less popular than it's been since those surveys started. Dang, why look inward when everyone knows how much better and smarter you are?
What do you call the part of the alternative universe you live in? MAGAlaxy? I’ve seen no celebration of his murder. I’ve seen plenty of liberal commentators decrying political violence, many whitewashing Kirk’s hateful utterances and some reminding their readers that while his murder is abhorrent he hypocritically toured the country pretending to listen to other points of view while deflecting and derailing the conversation so he could preach his own views. His last exchange before death cut him off shows exactly that. In the MAGAverse quoting someone’s exact words to show they’re not the martyred saint MAGA propaganda wants to portray them as is “hate speech”. Truth is lies. Everything bad is leftist or liberal. Facts (remember them?) prove otherwise.
You are drunk on your hatred, your arrogance, and your self-righteousness. You've seen no celebration of Kirk's murder? Then you are either blind or a liar, like those Germans who said they didn't know what was happening. Speaking of fascists, look in the mirror.
To me this is the most important point of your post:
“And the news coverage has been absolutely overwhelming; from the sheer quantity of it you’d think Charlie Kirk had dominated political life in America like no figure in a century, even though most Americans had probably never heard his name before last week. ”
Most people I know had no idea who Charlie Kirk was and I live in the South. I suspect a lot of mainstream reporters and pundits didn’t know who Kirk really was either. That would explain Ezra Klein’s bizarre statement that Kirk did politics “the right way” and others who saw Kirk as a champion of free speech when he was a leader of movement to censor teachers, academics, etc.
Charlie Kirk preached ignorance, intolerance and hate; his murder was a despicable crime, but he should not be put on a pedestal, and he should not lie in state in the rotunda of the nation’s Capital.
https://kamala4prez.substack.com/p/saint-charlies-church-of-ignorance
Before long we will know all your names! I’m posting all your comments,including this propaganda post on Reddit! You guys wanted to be famous right? You should be happy,everyone’s taking notice,and more people who celebrate death or instigate political violence will also get their pink slips!
Do you get bonus points in MAGA for posting the same unhinged nonsense multiple times like a bot? What’s the prize for most points? A diploma in propaganda from Trump University? Another MAGA hat? I’m guessing third prize would be being forced to chow down on cheeseburgers with TACO while “YMCA” plays on endless repeat.
I love cheeseburgers, but prefer burritos to tacos. Und Sie?
Before long we will know all your names! I’m posting all your comments,including this propaganda post on Reddit! You guys wanted to be famous right? You should be happy,everyone’s taking notice,and more people who celebrate death or instigate political violence will also get their pink slips!
Before long we will know all your names! I’m posting all your comments,including this propaganda post on Reddit! You guys wanted to be famous right? You should be happy,everyone’s taking notice,and more people who celebrate death or instigate political violence will also get their pink slips!
Before long we will know all your names! I’m posting all your comments,including this propaganda post on Reddit! You guys wanted to be famous right? You should be happy,everyone’s taking notice,and more people who celebrate death or instigate political violence will also get their pink slips!
I’d better push harder on getting my Czech (and EU) citizenship.
Tell us, is there a ball and chain on your ankle? Dobry den, virtue signaler. Have fun.