Few of the discussions of Trump and religion take note of what's plain there on your graphs: for every 10 White Evangelicals, there are 4 Black Evangelicals that take an opposite political position, though their religious beliefs are the same.
The 4:10 ratio is higher than the Black/White ratio in the general population: Evangelicalism is a much larger part of the Black community than the White community.
I don't think we see enough interviews and commentary from Black Evangelicals who are distressed by Trump's airs of religious virtue. Surely, given a platform, they would want to shame their White brethren back to a more-consistent Christian stance on secular matters.
"You won't find anybody crapping on the Christian intent to offer love, peace, and charity to the poor."
not outloud in so many words but that is exactly what they Do. Even waldman here sounds like he is against "christians" not just "christian nationalists.Jesus explitly says not to seek power, not to prosecute your enemies at law. not to punish "sinners" etc. read the new testament carefully. understand what he is saying. then look at what people do. even the "good" christians tend to backslide into pagan beliefs, but with a little help from their friends they keep trying.
Ray, I looked at Pew. i would not expect members of the Southern Baptists to differ much on their "religious beliefs", but the study does not really look at religious beliefs except "believe in god." The very large differences in political beliefs seem to me to come from very different religous beliefs. I knew a few Southern Baptists when I was in college. They mostly seemed like decent people, were not "christian nationalists," would have been horrified by Trump. The politicians....and school officials... though nominally Southern Baptists, were not so nice.
Roy, you may be right. but i don't trust Pew research. I'll look at it and try to get back to you. But my experience with black Christians always left me feeling like they were very good people. My experience with white Christians is also that they are good people. My experience with "christian nationalists" is that they don't know a damn thing about Christianity..take a few quotes out of context and use them to "hate thy neighbor." The real Christians, white and black. even republican and democrat, even if their leaers are lying...they are "only" lying about what they do, the "christian nationalists" are lying about what YOU should do, the former call for good behavior, the latter call for bad behavior.
If the faithful are guided by their "deeply held personal beliefs," then using the power of government to enforce those beliefs on the general population is hypocritical at best, and purely fascistic at worst. Then again, "Noooooobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"
Few of the discussions of Trump and religion take note of what's plain there on your graphs: for every 10 White Evangelicals, there are 4 Black Evangelicals that take an opposite political position, though their religious beliefs are the same.
The 4:10 ratio is higher than the Black/White ratio in the general population: Evangelicalism is a much larger part of the Black community than the White community.
I don't think we see enough interviews and commentary from Black Evangelicals who are distressed by Trump's airs of religious virtue. Surely, given a platform, they would want to shame their White brethren back to a more-consistent Christian stance on secular matters.
Roy, their religious beliefs are NOT the same. Even if they both call themselves "christian."
my comment above got written over by another comment. i will try again later. it's not as if i was going to change anyone's mind.
it is dangerous to slide from the need to fight Trump and "christian nationalism," into displays of contempt for christians and christianity.
Jesus himself warned against seeking power and forcing other people to do as you would have them do.
It is bad politics and bad thinking.
Yoicks, absolutely not my intent.
I would welcome instruction on how the religious, as opposed to political, beliefs of Black vs. White Evangelicals, differ. I am so far basing my comments on this: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/religious-denomination/southern-baptist-convention/racial-and-ethnic-composition/
...which indicates that Black and White members of the SBC have very similar answers to doctrinal questions.
You won't find anybody crapping on the Christian intent to offer love, peace, and charity to the poor.
"You won't find anybody crapping on the Christian intent to offer love, peace, and charity to the poor."
not outloud in so many words but that is exactly what they Do. Even waldman here sounds like he is against "christians" not just "christian nationalists.Jesus explitly says not to seek power, not to prosecute your enemies at law. not to punish "sinners" etc. read the new testament carefully. understand what he is saying. then look at what people do. even the "good" christians tend to backslide into pagan beliefs, but with a little help from their friends they keep trying.
Ray, I looked at Pew. i would not expect members of the Southern Baptists to differ much on their "religious beliefs", but the study does not really look at religious beliefs except "believe in god." The very large differences in political beliefs seem to me to come from very different religous beliefs. I knew a few Southern Baptists when I was in college. They mostly seemed like decent people, were not "christian nationalists," would have been horrified by Trump. The politicians....and school officials... though nominally Southern Baptists, were not so nice.
Roy, you may be right. but i don't trust Pew research. I'll look at it and try to get back to you. But my experience with black Christians always left me feeling like they were very good people. My experience with white Christians is also that they are good people. My experience with "christian nationalists" is that they don't know a damn thing about Christianity..take a few quotes out of context and use them to "hate thy neighbor." The real Christians, white and black. even republican and democrat, even if their leaers are lying...they are "only" lying about what they do, the "christian nationalists" are lying about what YOU should do, the former call for good behavior, the latter call for bad behavior.
i hope the above posts. been having a little trouble with that.
Trump's an opportunist who smelled success in the Christian evangelical air. He'll do anything to get votes, including hawking Trump bibles.
His MAGA followers are sick, pathetic people following the leader of the most dangerous cult since Nazi Germany.
Uh-oh, Trump's bible forgot to include a copy of the Second Amendment.
If the faithful are guided by their "deeply held personal beliefs," then using the power of government to enforce those beliefs on the general population is hypocritical at best, and purely fascistic at worst. Then again, "Noooooobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"
Sinister, indeed.